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Tactics for online play (Read 4519 times)
The Fish
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Tactics for online play
May 5th, 2003, 11:44am
 
Okay, I'm starting to get the hang of Hold 'em now, but I'm struggling with how to deal with online play.  How do you successfully play against people when they bet on worthless hands or stay in because it's only a few more chips to see the next card (i.e. no 'all in' bets)?
 
I'm finding I have days where I win and days where I lose.  I'm trying to play tactically, but then I see the winning hand is either real low or they just stayed in and fluked a straight or flush.  So what's the secret to good online play then?
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The Professor
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #1 - May 5th, 2003, 4:05pm
 
I would say that that is a problem with online poker where you cant see your opponents. I assume your talking about play money tables..there are always some wildmen on the Ultimate Bet play money tables who go all in at virtually any oppurtunity. With online poker you cant pick up any "tells" which may give you a hint as to the strength of their hand.
I think all you can do is be patient and wait until you have  strong hand and get their chips, move to a table with less wildmen or play for real money.
Poker doesnt really work if its play money for exactly this reason.
Lessons are usually extra by the way  Cheesy
if you must play with a maniac at the table try and get the seat to his left, wait till youve got the bullets, Reraise, and take his chips and those of some of the other players hes probably been goading onto betting when thy shouldnt.
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The Poker Gofer
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #2 - May 5th, 2003, 4:51pm
 
Two answers Fish... what the accepted theory says and what I think personally.  The accepted theory is based on the assumption you are playing for cash.
 
1) Steve Badger's Play Winning Poker
 
Autocheck or autoraise  
 
If you make your bet and the players after you instantly act, without a pause, it could be a tell.  Autocheck suggests they have little in their hand.  Auto-raise the opposite.
 
Speed of action
 
Slow players are likely to be distracted by work or playing two games.  Any change of pace suggests their attention has been focused and they are likely to have a hand.
 
"The Stall"  
 
When the last card in Holdem makes a coordinated board (making a nut hand like a flush), the mediocre player pauses as if thinking, and then finally bets, representing 'weakness' in an effort to win the hand.
 
Remembering names
 
Noting down player names and styles can help.  People who bet loosely regularly may be worth a call.  Tight players that only act when they have a hand are not worth a bet.  Paradise Poker has a note option for you to store notes on players.
 
Some Conclusions
 
In casino poker, showing down the best hand is only one way a winning player makes money. The same holds true online, but the logistical ways a thoughtful player increases his or her win rate are mostly quite different. When playing AK against your opponent’s J9, you aren’t just sending one hand value against another. Players who only earn the value of the hand strength of the AK over the J9 will fall well behind the much more successful players who do the logistical groundwork of lobby monitoring, database gathering and the rest. Hand value profit is only the tip of the iceberg.
 
playwinningpoker.com
 
2) The Gofer Gospel
 
Play as tight as a gofer's arse.  Play on three or four tables at a time to ensure that early folding does not bore you to a standstill.  
 
Unless you have a pair in the hand at the start or a combination of 10, J, Q, K, Ace, then fold.  With four games going you will pull a healthy looking two card start every couple of minutes.  
 
If you stay in for the flop and someone bets into you heavy, unless you have improved your hand or have the highest overcards, get out of there pronto. Stay disciplined, don't be tempted to gamble on a draw to a low straight or flush.
 
If everyone checks stay in as long as possible, if you have a weak hand at the end be careful.
 
In the play chip scenario, some people just want to gamble the most possible.  This is tedious in pot limit as everyone takes about 20 bets to get to the river card.  
 
Stick to no-limit, it's faster and more exciting (although be careful not to go all in on a prayer... lots of hard work and time can be undone in a few crazy seconds.
 
Choose the right poker room.  Players on Ultimate Bet in the play chip games seem to be less serious and up for alot of banter (and meaningless betting).  On Paradise Poker in my experience people actually don't like losing their play chips (not sure why).
 
Play heads up.  One on one games rarely involve silly betting.  Its more personal and actually not bad practice for real poker one on one end games.
 
Make a comment on the chat board.  Getting into a discussion with someone who bets at every opportunity normally results in them leaving the table.  I find describing them as morons with clearly no idea about poker, normally does the trick and gets support from the rest of the table.  At the very least it makes the game more of a grudge match!
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The Fish
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #3 - May 6th, 2003, 6:24pm
 
Thanks for the response Prof, and the Gopher gets a treat for his!
 
There's some interesting points there and I'll try some of the tactics and see how I go.
 
On both Paradise and Ultimate I've had good runs and amassed a fair few chips, but then later lost it all.  Unfortunately you need a lot of chips to get on the pot limit or no limit tables, so when you've had a bad run it makes it all the more difficult to get back to interesting play!
 
I agree with the Prof that without the danger of losing your own money people are going to play wild.  Just don't think I'm ready to put my own cash up yet!
 
Think I just need to be more patient and wait for good hands.  It's just annoying when you see other people playing with seemingly nothing and then taking a large pot with a flush draw on the river card!  Arrrggghhhh!
 
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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The Fish
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #4 - May 7th, 2003, 8:28pm
 
Well I've followed your advice and been cautious.  Over the last two days I've trebbled my stack to 3000
 
I guess it does pay to be patient!  hopefully I'll have enough chips soon to play in the pot limit games where I think things will be a little more competitive!
 
Cheers guys.
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Greystreak
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #5 - Mar 26th, 2004, 3:40pm
 
Hello there, my first post on this board.
 
When it comes to ridiculously loose play money tables I disagree with the traditional 'wait for bullets' advice. Two aces aginst a couple of flush draws, possible flukey two pairs and an under pair suddenly don't seem quite so good. They frequently WON'T stand up at the end.
 
Play any cards capable of making a straight if you can get in quite cheap and are in late position (except for possibly the top and bottom cards, eg 9-5). Also play A-suited.
 
Once the flop comes you are looking for a straight or flush draw. If you don't have one, fold. Occasionally you might be able to catch two pair, a nice occasional side benefit.
 
The pot odds in these games will ALWAYS allow you to draw at flushes and open straights, and often gutshot straights as well. When you make your hand you will be paid off very well.
 
And thats the key to beating these games- play with trash cards like everyone else. The difference is that you know when to get rid of them cheaply, and get max profits when you make a hand.
 
Playing this way also makes the process far more fun!!! Wish I could find a cash game along these lines...
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REAL_DEAL
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #6 - Mar 27th, 2004, 1:51am
 
Cash wins are just a way of keeping score. Don't let the fact that another player has won a big pot demoralise you. No doubt they will lose it all fairly quickly fishing for low straight or flushes. Be tight, unless you have the nuts. Position and chips are always the main factor. Be prepared for the longhaul on the tournament games, If you can get in cheap late on with a pair. Do it, see what the flop holds, why not. you may draw nuts on the flop in which case bet very strong, reel those suckers in who are looking for a straight or flush on fourth or fifth street.Yeah ,you may get a bad beat but you would have played it with odds in your favour.
I agree with Greystreak to some extent, but you don't actually have any sort of hand with 4 cards suited or a run of 4. If you do hit that straight or flush on a cheap flop, 4th or 5th street then great. But don't pay the pot or more to see it. Your'll more than likely be stung by the guy holding a pair , 2 pair or 3kind.  
Personally I never comment on message boards during online play. Your not gonna get any tells from it, it can distract your concentration on what your doing, by all means make note of those who are eager to play every hand,seek out those suckers. No limit is the best online. Without the option of a brown pants bet,you are always pissing in the wind.
kiss
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Five Fingers
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #7 - Mar 27th, 2004, 7:44am
 
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing quite clearly...
 
my advice...
 
BE LUCKY!  
 
beats everything!
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ArtoisX
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #8 - Sep 21st, 2006, 12:13pm
 
Quote from The Fish on May 7th, 2003, 8:28pm:
Well I've followed your advice and been cautious. Over the last two days I've trebbled my stack to 3000

I guess it does pay to be patient! hopefully I'll have enough chips soon to play in the pot limit games where I think things will be a little more competitive!

Cheers guys.

 
 
Yes I found that too, it's a pain waiting for a good hand to come along, and watching your stack slowly grind it's way to zero can be a nightmare, BUT provided your on a table where the blinds aren't too high you can afford to wait for one.
 
Chasing straights and flushes is to be avoided unless you can check or place a low bet to get there, but i've found that 2 pair (with high card) and full house is usually quite successful, so it's worth taking a gamble with those hands.
 
My best tip for online play is.... DONT BLUFF! Only play good hands. Pay small amounts to see the flop, if youve got nothing, simply fold and wait a little longer  Smiley Oh, and if you've put quite alot of chips into the centre, still don't be afraid of folding, don't get carried away in the moment, it's so easy to click the mouse button, think about it and if in doubt fold.
 
well it's working for me at the moment anyway, although i am still only playing with play money chips  Smiley
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Five Fingers
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #9 - Sep 21st, 2006, 10:56pm
 
Hi ArtoisX
 
That strategy will get you quite a long way in free play and even the 1$ and 2$ games of 10 player sit and go.
 
Its a whole different ball game at 5$ and everyone is of a much higher skill level.
 
Once you get to 10$ a game EVERYONE knows what they are doing.
 
At 100$ its a different universe. The waiting strategy at that level is like a lamb to slaughter. In fact I am sure these players lick their lips when players come in thinking they can play the odds. These guys gamble hard and he who dares wins. I think alot of it is that they can afford to lose 100$ whereas most of us dont really want to. Chip bullies really but a different league of skill.
 
What I would say is get out of the free play as fast as you can. Even people betting for a $1 play relatively serious poker and you get no silly all ins on the first hand. Its much more fun, more challenging and who knows, you might even win a buck!
 
Lets play cards!
 
Five Fingers
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ArtoisX
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #10 - Sep 22nd, 2006, 3:02pm
 
That's for sure!! On the lower tables (play money) I won 45000 then 35000 (with only 1000 chip starts Cheesy), so I thought I'd try the higher tables at 100 big blinds, unbelieveable! they bet and raise and reraise with absolutely nothing!  Shocked going all in with J 3 or Q 4 anyway to be sure stack didn't last very long at all  embarrassed
 
As you say the higher you go the more aggressive the game becomes, not in a competative way, just what people are willing to bet  undecided And for someone new trying to get your head around the differences in bets is difficult, knowing how much to bet, and understanding the size of other peoples bets..... very complicated!  undecided
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TheColonel
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #11 - Mar 9th, 2008, 6:24pm
 
I have a Great way of not losing money playing internet poker, I DONT Play it.
 
I stick to where I can see the dealer DEAL.
 
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bigplaq
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Re: Tactics for online play
Reply #12 - Oct 1st, 2008, 6:02am
 
Internet poker I think takes the fun out of it. I personally like to feel the cards, especially when I'm playing for cash.
 
Besides, how random can a computer really be when it comes to a deck of cards?
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