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    The Poker Joker Forum >> Poker Tips and Tricks >> Message started by: The Fish on 03/27/04 at 07:44:12

Title: Tactics for online play
Post by: The Fish on 05/05/03 at 11:44:59
Okay, I'm starting to get the hang of Hold 'em now, but I'm struggling with how to deal with online play.  How do you successfully play against people when they bet on worthless hands or stay in because it's only a few more chips to see the next card (i.e. no 'all in' bets)?

I'm finding I have days where I win and days where I lose.  I'm trying to play tactically, but then I see the winning hand is either real low or they just stayed in and fluked a straight or flush.  So what's the secret to good online play then?


Title: Re: Tactics for online play
Post by: The Professor on 05/05/03 at 16:05:57
I would say that that is a problem with online poker where you cant see your opponents. I assume your talking about play money tables..there are always some wildmen on the Ultimate Bet play money tables who go all in at virtually any oppurtunity. With online poker you cant pick up any "tells" which may give you a hint as to the strength of their hand.
I think all you can do is be patient and wait until you have strong hand and get their chips, move to a table with less wildmen or play for real money.
Poker doesnt really work if its play money for exactly this reason.
Lessons are usually extra by the way :D
if you must play with a maniac at the table try and get the seat to his left, wait till youve got the bullets, Reraise, and take his chips and those of some of the other players hes probably been goading onto betting when thy shouldnt.


Title: Re: Tactics for online play
Post by: The Poker Gofer on 05/05/03 at 16:51:48
Two answers Fish... what the accepted theory says and what I think personally.  The accepted theory is based on the assumption you are playing for cash.

1) Steve Badger's Play Winning Poker

Autocheck or autoraise

If you make your bet and the players after you instantly act, without a pause, it could be a tell.  Autocheck suggests they have little in their hand.  Auto-raise the opposite.

Speed of action

Slow players are likely to be distracted by work or playing two games.  Any change of pace suggests their attention has been focused and they are likely to have a hand.

"The Stall"

When the last card in Holdem makes a coordinated board (making a nut hand like a flush), the mediocre player pauses as if thinking, and then finally bets, representing 'weakness' in an effort to win the hand.

Remembering names

Noting down player names and styles can help.  People who bet loosely regularly may be worth a call.  Tight players that only act when they have a hand are not worth a bet.  Paradise Poker has a note option for you to store notes on players.

Some Conclusions

In casino poker, showing down the best hand is only one way a winning player makes money. The same holds true online, but the logistical ways a thoughtful player increases his or her win rate are mostly quite different. When playing AK against your opponent’s J9, you aren’t just sending one hand value against another. Players who only earn the value of the hand strength of the AK over the J9 will fall well behind the much more successful players who do the logistical groundwork of lobby monitoring, database gathering and the rest. Hand value profit is only the tip of the iceberg.

www.playwinningpoker.com

2) The Gofer Gospel

Play as tight as a gofer's arse.  Play on three or four tables at a time to ensure that early folding does not bore you to a standstill.  

Unless you have a pair in the hand at the start or a combination of 10, J, Q, K, Ace, then fold.  With four games going you will pull a healthy looking two card start every couple of minutes.  

If you stay in for the flop and someone bets into you heavy, unless you have improved your hand or have the highest overcards, get out of there pronto. Stay disciplined, don't be tempted to gamble on a draw to a low straight or flush.

If everyone checks stay in as long as possible, if you have a weak hand at the end be careful.

In the play chip scenario, some people just want to gamble the most possible.  This is tedious in pot limit as everyone takes about 20 bets to get to the river card.  

Stick to no-limit, it's faster and more exciting (although be careful not to go all in on a prayer... lots of hard work and time can be undone in a few crazy seconds.

Choose the right poker room.  Players on Ultimate Bet in the play chip games seem to be less serious and up for alot of banter (and meaningless betting).  On Paradise Poker in my experience people actually don't like losing their play chips (not sure why).

Play heads up.  One on one games rarely involve silly betting.  Its more personal and actually not bad practice for real poker one on one end games.

Make a comment on the chat board.  Getting into a discussion with someone who bets at every opportunity normally results in them leaving the table.  I find describing them as morons with clearly no idea about poker, normally does the trick and gets support from the rest of the table.  At the very least it makes the game more of a grudge match!


Title: Re: Tactics for online play
Post by: The Fish on 05/06/03 at 18:24:47
Thanks for the response Prof, and the Gopher gets a treat for his!

There's some interesting points there and I'll try some of the tactics and see how I go.

On both Paradise and Ultimate I've had good runs and amassed a fair few chips, but then later lost it all.  Unfortunately you need a lot of chips to get on the pot limit or no limit tables, so when you've had a bad run it makes it all the more difficult to get back to interesting play!

I agree with the Prof that without the danger of losing your own money people are going to play wild.  Just don't think I'm ready to put my own cash up yet!

Think I just need to be more patient and wait for good hands.  It's just annoying when you see other people playing with seemingly nothing and then taking a large pot with a flush draw on the river card!  Arrrggghhhh!

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?


Title: Re: Tactics for online play
Post by: The Fish on 05/07/03 at 20:28:11
Well I've followed your advice and been cautious.  Over the last two days I've trebbled my stack to 3000

I guess it does pay to be patient!  hopefully I'll have enough chips soon to play in the pot limit games where I think things will be a little more competitive!

Cheers guys.


Title: Re: Tactics for online play
Post by: Greystreak on 03/26/04 at 15:40:06
Hello there, my first post on this board.

When it comes to ridiculously loose play money tables I disagree with the traditional 'wait for bullets' advice. Two aces aginst a couple of flush draws, possible flukey two pairs and an under pair suddenly don't seem quite so good. They frequently WON'T stand up at the end.

Play any cards capable of making a straight if you can get in quite cheap and are in late position (except for possibly the top and bottom cards, eg 9-5). Also play A-suited.

Once the flop comes you are looking for a straight or flush draw. If you don't have one, fold. Occasionally you might be able to catch two pair, a nice occasional side benefit.

The pot odds in these games will ALWAYS allow you to draw at flushes and open straights, and often gutshot straights as well. When you make your hand you will be paid off very well.

And thats the key to beating these games- play with trash cards like everyone else. The difference is that you know when to get rid of them cheaply, and get max profits when you make a hand.

Playing this way also makes the process far more fun!!! Wish I could find a cash game along these lines...


Title: Re: Tactics for online play
Post by: REAL_DEAL on 03/27/04 at 01:51:27
Cash wins are just a way of keeping score. Don't let the fact that another player has won a big pot demoralise you. No doubt they will lose it all fairly quickly fishing for low straight or flushes. Be tight, unless you have the nuts. Position and chips are always the main factor. Be prepared for the longhaul on the tournament games, If you can get in cheap late on with a pair. Do it, see what the flop holds, why not. you may draw nuts on the flop in which case bet very strong, reel those suckers in who are looking for a straight or flush on fourth or fifth street.Yeah ,you may get a bad beat but you would have played it with odds in your favour.
I agree with Greystreak to some extent, but you don't actually have any sort of hand with 4 cards suited or a run of 4. If you do hit that straight or flush on a cheap flop, 4th or 5th street then great. But don't pay the pot or more to see it. Your'll more than likely be stung by the guy holding a pair , 2 pair or 3kind.
Personally I never comment on message boards during online play. Your not gonna get any tells from it, it can distract your concentration on what your doing, by all means make note of those who are eager to play every hand,seek out those suckers. No limit is the best online. Without the option of a brown pants bet,you are always pissing in the wind.
:-*


Title: Re: Tactics for online play
Post by: Five Fingers on 03/27/04 at 07:44:12
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing quite clearly...

my advice...

BE LUCKY!

beats everything!



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